The problem isn't that we're not hip or relevant enough. They're ignoring the church because the church doesn't embody the power of the gospel. The life-altering, raising-of-the-dead power of the gospel.
Rich Kirkpatrick
· 3 years ago
I agree that we must be savvy in reaching the young. After all, this is why youth ministry is so crucial and children's ministry is the most important discipleship "program" we offer. Madison Av is after our kids.
"The Merchants of Cool" is a Frontline expose on MTV and corporate America's effort to create consumers that are powerfully drawn to the agenda of buy buy buy... check this out
I dont like MTV because their values invade the home and override the Christian values that parents SHOULD be instilling in their children.
It encourages rampant consumerism and encourages children (boys and girls) to view each other as objects to be clothed and "seen" in cool places.
I also think that MTV is the modern "first strike" weapon of cultural and economic warfare. Get MTV into the middle east and within 20 years the problems will melt go away. You can see this in Iran, the problems there are in the older generation, the youth doesnt support the revolutionaries, they are young, aspirational, consumer driven.
FACT: No country that has the starbucks chain has ever fought a war with ANOTHER country that also has starbucks.
My 2c.
Bless you! Mark.
Tony Morgan
· 3 years ago
Mark, here's another interesting fact. Since I started drinking coffee out of my new Al Jazeera coffee mug, my house has never been impacted by a terrorist attack. Someone call Kofi Annan. I think Mark and I have found the key to world peace. We just need to introduce the world to Juan Valdez.
tony
Brenton Balvin
· 3 years ago
Tony, I appreciate you rounding up those statistics. They are very valid indicators that we need to put more money/staff/resources/investment into our youth and children's minstries. These are huge times for people to form opinions and values.
However by making our churches and ministries look more and more like MTV in the name of 'drawing people in', we will probably succeed in teaching those young impression-soaking students that following Jesus is all about being entertained at church and we'll get more and more church people who think that following Jesus is a cool thing to do the morning after getting wasted at the high school football game and sleeping over with their girlfriend.
We'll have more people who are happy to attend church, but who think that radically changing their lives, becoming a counter-cultre, praying about moving to be a martyr in a place like Iraq or a servant to the homeless in the inner-city, or any thing else that involves more than there passive involvement and a 2 hr. monthly service project is not really a necessary part of the call of the Gospel.
Matthew Tilley
· 3 years ago
According to Romans 5:12: * Sin is #1 pasttime for everyone in the world. * Sin is the favorite and most performed act for teens ages 12-19 and every other demographic. * Sin targets young adults ages 18-34 that represent 29% of the US population. It also hits directly at the other 71% of the population
Point: People like stuff that's not good for them.
We do need to understand where people are and from whence they come. However, we don't necessarily need to emulate that place. Of course, that isn't to say that a tactic is wrong just because MTV uses it. But we should question and examine the wisdom of adapting it for the cause of Christ.
scott engbrecht
· 3 years ago
Tony-
Great subject! I love it! I watched most of the VMA's as I try to catch it every year.
Just a couple of thoughts as I read the comments in light of what I watch on MTV.
First, you've got to watch the disconnect that can happen when a ministy, youth or not, uses MTV-esque styles when reaching out. A non-beliveing, unchurched person will be attracted to it, which is great. But, at some point you have to speak against the primary message of many of MTV's shows. It can easily confuse the person. If I use MTV's Laguna Beach, Next, or Wild 'N Out to attract kids to my youth ministry then when they get there, I tell them to not watch the junk on TV, then I have a problem.
Second, you've got to know you're culture! The kids involved in our ministry and in our region who need Christ do not look or act anything like what was seen on the VMAs. Don't get me wrong, they watch MTV. I'm not that slow! But, they see MTV as a different entertainment culuture than their own. The punk, indie rock, emo culture is not prevelant where we do ministry.
We really need to stay out of the ditches on this subject. We cannot as ministries and churches accept and promote many of the philosphies present in MTV. It's sin, bottom line. However, we have to stay current on popular culture and what influences our kids and young adults. It's a hard balance, I know, I've worked in it for a long time.
Great dialogue, keep it going!!!
Just my thoughts.
Jon Sampson
· 3 years ago
I think we end up talking about two different things when we talk about MTV and the church. I think Tony's talking about communicating God's message using a style similar to MTV (from musical style to fast video editing), while I think a few of the commenters are worried about using the content or message of MTV in a church setting.
I don't think a style can be either holy or unholy. Content can. Communicating in a style that connects with a group of people seems to make perfect sense.
So here's my question... something I've been batting around. Most worship music isn't done in a "top 40" style right now. It's either an acoustic mid-90s feel or an electric U2 sound. Special music aside, is it possible to have worship that people can sing along with in an Outcast/Shakira style? I haven't seen it done. If someone is doing it well, I'd like to see it!
Tom Siwicki
· 3 years ago
Just read in the Washington Post (9/7/06, C01) that the VMA's were " irrelevant" after scoring fewer than 6 million viewers as compared to 12 million in 02, and "Among teens, it was VMA's worst showing on record." This could have interesting implications for youth ministries that are seeking to be culturally relevant in an MTV cutting edge way. My read is that postmodern kids are thirsting for community, authenticity, and meaningful spirituality. Maybe less is more when it comes to retaining and reaching youth today.
tony sheng
· 3 years ago
Tony - Thanks for posting that. I'm a big fan of MTV, just to watch the influence that they have on students. I wish more people tied to student ministry shared your opinion about what a big influence MTV is on students. Not to say we should style ourselves after them to reach students, but that MTV is an important piece of our culture.
Tom - very interesting stat. I used to watch the VMAs every year but missed them this year - sounds like I wasn't the only one...
Rolando Martinez
· 1 year ago
I am a 27 year old leader of a Singles ministry at my church. My true passion is to see churches develop therr youth. As a human resources professional, the data is true, young leaders who are not properly developed through constant feedback and opportunities will leave your organization for another that believes in them. I truely believe, with all my heart, that churches should learn from this. Discipleship is a key to making sure that constant feedback, accountability, and opportunity happens in the life of every Christian and what better time that to do it with youth. One of the primary goals of the Singles ministry i was just called to assist with is to partner them with older leaders in the church for accountability purposes, and in turn, that single will also be motivated to become a mentor for youth age students. Leadership development should not only occur during succession planning!
All Comments
"The Merchants of Cool" is a Frontline expose on MTV and corporate America's effort to create consumers that are powerfully drawn to the agenda of buy buy buy... check this out
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/c...
It encourages rampant consumerism and encourages children (boys and girls) to view each other as objects to be clothed and "seen" in cool places.
I also think that MTV is the modern "first strike" weapon of cultural and economic warfare. Get MTV into the middle east and within 20 years the problems will melt go away. You can see this in Iran, the problems there are in the older generation, the youth doesnt support the revolutionaries, they are young, aspirational, consumer driven.
FACT: No country that has the starbucks chain has ever fought a war with ANOTHER country that also has starbucks.
My 2c.
Bless you!
Mark.
tony
However by making our churches and ministries look more and more like MTV in the name of 'drawing people in', we will probably succeed in teaching those young impression-soaking students that following Jesus is all about being entertained at church and we'll get more and more church people who think that following Jesus is a cool thing to do the morning after getting wasted at the high school football game and sleeping over with their girlfriend.
We'll have more people who are happy to attend church, but who think that radically changing their lives, becoming a counter-cultre, praying about moving to be a martyr in a place like Iraq or a servant to the homeless in the inner-city, or any thing else that involves more than there passive involvement and a 2 hr. monthly service project is not really a necessary part of the call of the Gospel.
* Sin is #1 pasttime for everyone in the world.
* Sin is the favorite and most performed act for teens ages 12-19 and every other demographic.
* Sin targets young adults ages 18-34 that represent 29% of the US population. It also hits directly at the other 71% of the population
Point: People like stuff that's not good for them.
We do need to understand where people are and from whence they come. However, we don't necessarily need to emulate that place. Of course, that isn't to say that a tactic is wrong just because MTV uses it. But we should question and examine the wisdom of adapting it for the cause of Christ.
Great subject! I love it! I watched most of the VMA's as I try to catch it every year.
Just a couple of thoughts as I read the comments in light of what I watch on MTV.
First, you've got to watch the disconnect that can happen when a ministy, youth or not, uses MTV-esque styles when reaching out. A non-beliveing, unchurched person will be attracted to it, which is great. But, at some point you have to speak against the primary message of many of MTV's shows. It can easily confuse the person. If I use MTV's Laguna Beach, Next, or Wild 'N Out to attract kids to my youth ministry then when they get there, I tell them to not watch the junk on TV, then I have a problem.
Second, you've got to know you're culture! The kids involved in our ministry and in our region who need Christ do not look or act anything like what was seen on the VMAs. Don't get me wrong, they watch MTV. I'm not that slow! But, they see MTV as a different entertainment culuture than their own. The punk, indie rock, emo culture is not prevelant where we do ministry.
We really need to stay out of the ditches on this subject. We cannot as ministries and churches accept and promote many of the philosphies present in MTV. It's sin, bottom line. However, we have to stay current on popular culture and what influences our kids and young adults. It's a hard balance, I know, I've worked in it for a long time.
Great dialogue, keep it going!!!
Just my thoughts.
I don't think a style can be either holy or unholy. Content can. Communicating in a style that connects with a group of people seems to make perfect sense.
So here's my question... something I've been batting around. Most worship music isn't done in a "top 40" style right now. It's either an acoustic mid-90s feel or an electric U2 sound. Special music aside, is it possible to have worship that people can sing along with in an Outcast/Shakira style? I haven't seen it done. If someone is doing it well, I'd like to see it!
Tom - very interesting stat. I used to watch the VMAs every year but missed them this year - sounds like I wasn't the only one...